THE CHALLENGE OF WORSHIP
My wife and her new husband (me) were out on Sunday visiting a local Church for worship. This church is being served by a Minister whom I respect a great deal, who has encouraged, walked with and led by example – the church to re-engage with its local community, and to re-think its purpose. I had not visited this church since my first year at College – on that occasion I was the guest speaker at a Baptism service. Anyway, we were visiting this last Sunday – just dropped in.
The worship service was very engaging, relevant and meaningful – not entertainment, but rather a community in communion with each other, with God, and with their story - it was incidentally, the first time I have ever heard the work of Paul Ricœur mentioned during a communion reflection. The text for the sermon was James 3:1-12, and the message focused largely on honesty, gossip and swearing. Taming the tongue – we were encouraged and implored to be mindful of what comes out our mouths – be encouraging not cynics (one of my problems), do not swear (“swearing is the language of the uneducated” – or the only mode of successful communication in my previous vocation….) and be honest and straightforward in your dealings with each other (don’t lie, or spread gossip etc – “If don’t have anything nice to say, then don’t say anything). It was an important message in terms of successful community. The sermon concluded, and then we moved into the final song – “I Surrender All”.
I couldn’t sing it. I struggle to sing that one at the best of times, but in light of the sermon – the words, ‘all for you my precious Jesus, I surrender all’ had a new, powerful meaning. I know, that I don’t and haven’t Surrendered all – I probably have at times in my life, but generally I know that there are still parts of my life and existence which haven’t been offered up – I still like to take the ‘me’ time – choose not to answer my phone, nor respond to some emails (sorry). If the lyrics were, “I surrender generally most things” or perhaps “on a good day I surrender upwards of 75% of myself” I could have joined in, but not Surrendering All.
How concerned should we be (if at all) about what we sing in worship? Is singing a song like that – with good intentions – lying to God, lying to each other? Which is worse? Is this a concern of others or am I taking this whole worship/honesty thing to far?
This entry was posted
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4:25 pm, August 22, 2006All to Jesus I surrender;
all to him I freely give;
I will ever love and trust him,
in his presence daily live.
Chorus:
I surrender all, I surrender all,
all to thee, my blessed Savior,
I surrender all.
Perhaps,
Nearly All to Jesus, I surrender;
Most to him I freely give;
I will mostly love and trust him,
(when doing the right thing) in his presence daily live (but otherwise…)
Chorus:
I surrender bits, I surrender bits,
Nearly All to you, my blessed Savior,
I would really like to surrender all.
4:27 pm, August 22, 2006
Or this modern one from Hillsong,
You are my world
You are my God
And I lay down my life for You
You are my Lord
The one I love
No one could ever take Your place
And everything I have I give to You
My Lord, the One I live for
I live for You
And all my days are gifts from You
I pray Id use them as You want me to
Use them for You
Perhaps,
You are mostly my world (at least on Sundays)
You are my God
And I wish I could lay down my life for You (but there are so many things that I really want to do and see)
You are my Lord
The one I kind of love (but I'm not really sure on how this looks)
No one could ever take Your place (except perhaps for my girlfriend/boyfriend etc.)
And some of the tings I have I give to You
My Lord, the One I’d really like to live for
I’d like to live for You
And all my days are gifts from You
I pray I’d use them as You want me to (as long as it fits in with my plans)
Use them for You…
We wouldn't sing the bits in brackets
11:07 am, August 23, 2006
mmm... didn't you say something about cynicism??
12:07 am, August 24, 2006
Yes - I did mention the "c" word.
So, what you're saying Rose, is that it is fine to just sing whatever the words are, even if you have no intention whatsoever of living up to your oratory declarations??
7:46 pm, August 25, 2006
*thinks about that one*
That is so true.
Do we sometimes become a 'Sunday Christian' and sing whatever is infront of us (or on the screen or monitor, chalk board or stone tablet that happens to reside infront of us)????
I first fell in love with this song when i happen to have seen an Oprah 'After the Show' episode while channel flicking on the telly (no, to be honest - I like Oprah) and Faith Hill was on, and Oprah told of her trial she faced at the time and all the 'wassup' stuff she talks about, and asked Faith and her band to sing it - full on inspiriational cowboy gun slinging feet tapping yippy yi yaying stuff... i loved it!
And now you have me thinking.
To be honest, i think i sing it (and i sing it alot) to remind me of who i am because of Jesus Christ. A reminder that i cannot just say 'Hey G Man, your summin, im gonna say your pretty on your stuff so, ya know, aiiiight!'
'In his presence, daily live'
my faveourite part.
Glad your Back.
Missed ya!
And HUGEMUNGEOUS Congrats buddy to you and KC :D
*Sorry this comment is HUGEMUNGEOUS!*
PSS - where is 'here' now? :)
1:13 am, August 27, 2006
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
1:18 am, August 27, 2006
Hey Saemon!
Good thoughts there. This is something I've really thought about. At times I have refused to sing words because I can't honestly say I believe what the words on the screen say I should sing.
In particular Planetshakers 'Send Me'
Send me
I will go
Send me
I will go
To this city, to this nation
And to the nations of the world
etc.
I don't want to be sent to the cities and nations. I quite happy where I am at the moment thankyou!
I surrender all is a similar thing for me. Like you were saying. Most of me sure, all of me ... no.
After a lot of thought it has come down to it being a statement of intent. I guess I would like to have the trust to say to God 'send me and I'll go ... wherever' or 'I surrender all'.
When I'm singing those things I'm singing that I would like to exhibit the qualities that make those statements possible (like trust). I guess I'm singing that I'm a work in progress.
I hope that makes sense. Let me know if you find any difinitive answers!
3:19 pm, August 29, 2006
It's difficult sometimes to remove yourself from singing the words of a song when everyone else in the room is singing them - whether or not you agree with them.
As a person who loves singing, I sometimes end up humming just so I can participate with some sound emerging :) That, and I sometimes make up my own words that I don't have to disagree with. Or I put qualifying statements on the ends of lines ;) I'm bad!
5:12 pm, August 29, 2006
Trying to engage the multiple voices...
RAV: Thanks for the comments. I agree some of the language, and metaphor in the verses is quite beautiful, and can go a long way to reminding us of the Christological event. But when we join voices and sing in church - who are we singing for? Are we singing for ourselves, for eachother or for God as an act of worship?
KIM: Who wants definative answers? Where is the fun in that? For starters, I wouldn't need a blog to shove all my musings out there if there were just one answer. I know, depending of where you study - that some will argue that there is only one truth - but I think God is bigger than that...did I just switch topics? You know, I love the shaker's song "Send Me" because, how do you know when you are being sent? Mick Duncan (on the weekend at Surrender) - at least I think it was him, could have been someone else...said that Christians use the concept of, "I must pray about it" or "I must seek community discernment about it" as delaying tactics for becoming disciples...I know I have done that - I have thrown out the proverbial fleece to see if God will wet it, and then I'll go...
BEN: Good to hear/read your voice/words. I'm like you Ben, if I can't sing the words, I'll hum along - not that my humming is anything in comparison to yours - I mean, I couldn't hold a tune in a paper bag!!
At a Minister's Breaky this morning, we got onto talking about swearing. Not the verbal abuse type - well I guess it is when you think about it - but more the type of, "I swear, I'll do such and such" - which is one of the later Pauline commandments. Is singing something like, "I Surrender All" swearing such to God?
9:54 am, August 30, 2006
Hey Sae, sorry to not have replied to you. For me these songs mean a statement that I want to do this. For me - I keep saying to Jesus that I surrender my life daily, hourly and by the minute to Him because if I don't then it becomes all about me! And that is not how I believe that we should (opps) living our lives.
We are called by Jesus to follow Him - and that for me means I have to surrender my every waking and sleeping moments to Him.
So to you guys I will sing this song cause if I don't then I begin to sing - 'All to Rose I surrender ...'
Cheers ;-)
7:00 pm, August 30, 2006
Thanks for the comment Rose.
I don't want to put you on the spot or anything, but in what ways do you "daily, hourly and by the minute" surrender all that you are and have to Jesus? What does that look like for you?
It is something that we have been told that we should (sorry) do, but can we - in all honesty - live and work in a consumeristic, capitalist society and also surrender all? And this is the struggle I am having with my theology, because I don't think we can - to go all scriptury (new word) on you - "you can't serve two Masters." And from there, I ask the question - do we in fact need too? What I mean is, does Jesus (God) really want us to Surrender all over to him (physically and materially) and wait for instructions, or become the hands, face, feet and spirit of the living God in our world, seeking justice, loving mercy and walking humbly?? I think, once we take that seriously - we won't serve two masters, i mean how can we seek justice (God's justice, not man's justice) from a position of power (fiscal and otherwise). The whole notion of following Jesus is by definition kenotic (self emptying). One of the Surrender speakers - i think it was Campolo, said that you can't be a follower of Jesus unless you identify (have concern for, show solidarity with) with the poor.
Campolo also said, Christians are believers - Disciples are followers.
4:37 pm, September 01, 2006
Sae - my comment is on my site. :D
10:00 am, September 06, 2006
Sae, here is more to your last comment.
I agree with you in regards to the fact that we cannot serve 2 masters - that is a given in my book, you know, logical and all that.
Perhaps when you come across these songs you (& I) need to look at what we need to surrender to Jesus (something that is holding us back - like a person that I have an issue with or situation that I don't know how to deal with). I think by doing this we give over a certain amount of control to Him and then some thing happens, for me it means that I can focus on what I suppose to be and do in Him rather than that issue.
In today's society there seems to be a real focus on controlling situations around yourself - I can't do that and stay sane (it simply isn't possible).
So for me when I next sing and hear this song - I will let myself be open to Jesus to show what I need to surrender to Him, and hopefully I am mature enough to do it.
Sae, for me surrender to Jesus is freedom! Freedom to me! (as Rav would say - woohoo!!!) :D
12:10 pm, September 11, 2006
Here's a curve ball for you Rose....
Do we need to Surrender All to Jesus? Or, do we need to live in response to the life, teaching, example, death and resurrection of Jesus - which enables us to grasp for an authentic human life, and empowers us to enable others to do likewise??
I just came from a DDP weekend - can you tell??
12:19 pm, September 11, 2006
ok, i would serious suggest then that you watch "dust" no 8 in the nooma series to fully understand part of my thinking.
it looks at the cultural context of being a disciple of a rabbi.
and for me to be a disciple of jesus, i need to get him and for me to truely understand that i need to surrender to that. at least that is how i view it.
as in the dvd - you want to be covered in the dust of your rabbi.
i want to reflect and be like jesus - and that means less of me and more of him.
1:41 pm, September 11, 2006
To comment on the original post: I would agree with kimando and say that motivation is supremely important. Singing songs can be a question of future intention, not just current action.
Singing thoughtlessly is, well, thoughtless.
If you only sing what you do though, you'll be quite mute. What these songs capture us with though is what they inspire us to do.
So sing with thought, sing with meaning, be challenged and inspired ... and trust that God will (by His grace) continue His "transformational" work.
Is that swearing? Or is that reflecting a God-given desire to throw off the old nature that we continue to struggle with?
If this is the case (and it may not be) then you face the difficulty of being real about your intention, but the other option seems to be the impossible quest to avoid hypocrisy.
1:59 pm, September 11, 2006
Saemon:
I believe we do need to surrender all to Jesus. I do not believe that we can live in response to the life, teaching etc of Jesus (11 Sep comment), unless we surrender to Him. The statement "I surrender all" signifies intention and desire in how you choose to live your life, it is not a record of the singer's life.
Surrendering to Jesus involves accepting the leadership of someone greater than yourself and trying to live out the life of Jesus in the world. Surrendering all to Jesus does not include answering every phone call or email you receive. Jesus did not deal with everyone who came to see Him during his earthly ministry and frequently had some alone time because it is important and healthy.
Your position seems to have developed from "I don't really surrender all to Jesus," to "Do we really need to surrender all to Jesus?" I don't know if this was intentional on your part, but I become concerned when a person seems to define their theology according to their own perceived limitations, rather than according to Jesus. Concerns about a perception of hypocrisy are valid, but disciples don't need to be perfect, they just need to point in the direction of the one who is.
Ultimately, our guide is Christ, who had no trouble with surrendering His entire life to the will of God, we need to do likewise.
12:05 pm, September 12, 2006
Thanks for your comments JT and Ashley - I'm not sure if I know you guys or not, but thanks for engaging in the conversation.
Perhaps being somewhat facetious is good at generating some deep thinking and conversation!! ;)
To add further to the conversation..
Did Jesus ever ask us to sing songs to him?
Did Jesus ever command us to do any more than "follow him"?
The word surrender connotes an element of requirement, an almost reluctance to hand over, what ever it is we are surrendering. Dictionary dot com defines it as: to yield (something) to the possession or power of another; deliver up possession of on demand or under duress.
Surely the notion of surrendering our lives under duress is not what God requires of us (Micah 6:8). God wants us to be in relationship - with Godself, and with Godself in others. To quote Les Mis - "To love another person is to see the face of God". Surely what God wants of us, more than anything is to us to LIVE - but more than that, to live as authentic human beings. To live our lives in response to the relationship with God, not as fire insurance, not as travel insurance, but because in the life of Jesus of Nazareth, we saw the most authetic human being ever - someone who lived life in complete common union (communion) with God and with humans - a lifes whos very nature demanded a response - so we killed him. Is our response to the call of Jesus to follow him, in fear of what would happen if we didn't, or because we are invited to 'have life' through this relationship with the sacred and with the everyday (if we could actually separte the two).
Feel free to throw it all back.
2:40 pm, September 12, 2006
I'm not aware of any record of Jesus asking people to sing songs to him, however there are many references to music being used in worship. Since you offered alternative lyrics I will presume that you do not object to singing in church and that the issue is this concept of surrender to Jesus.
Jesus commanded many things, of which "follow me" was one. I believe that other commands are in fact the method by which we can follow Him.
Micah 6:8 lists what the Lord *requires* of His people. There is a requirement, if people want to live God's way. The requirement is to accept that God knows better than we do and strive to live in His way, not our own.
I dislike this language of "authentic human beings." It seems to me to be a category of relationship with God that does not depend on us accepting anything that God teaches. A Satanist an authentic human being (ie really human), but that does not mean they have (or are seeking) a good relationship with God.
The quote from Les Mis is also misleading without a definition of the type of love we are talking about. That could mean eros (sexual love), thus suggesting to have sex is to see the face of God. This statement only has value in the light of the definition of Christian love, ie to act for the benefit of another ahead of yourself. However only Jesus has the way to truly help other people, so we cannot really act for the benefit others until we accept God's leading in our own lives.
In short, Jesus commanded that we follow him. Unless we say "Ok, I will not go my own way, but rather follow you" (ie choose to surrender leadership over your own life to God) we are not following Jesus.
As Jesus said: "NOT my will, but YOURS be done"
4:38 pm, September 23, 2006
Wow looks likemore people comment on your blog than on mine. maybe I should look after my readers better.
Glad to see my sermon inspired you and that our church is doing something right to engage people meaningfully.
We (Verity and I) choose songs such as 'I Surrender All' for the vry reason of confronting people with words they like to see but struggle to live out. If in our ministr we can move people into a place where they struggle to sing the songs then I feel we have acheived something. It means people are actually thinking. Now there's an idea. Yes, jesus calls us to Surrender all, not just sing about it.
Cheers,
Mark
P.S. Why don't people sign their name on a blog? Do they have something to hide? I enjoy seeing who it is that is actually commenting, that way i feel like I'm actually responding to that person not just a pseudo person.
4:44 pm, September 23, 2006
Further to my comment, did you hear Tony Campollo at the Surrender 06 conference?
'one tenth to jesus I surrender...I surrender one tenth, I surrender one tenth, one tenth to thee my precious savior, I surrender one tenth'
He sang it! Try sining it, doesn't sound right does it/ Yetthis is all most people are prepared to give. the Jesus message is hard hitting and I'm with Ashley on this.
Cheers
Mark
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